Rick Warren and Sam Harris: The God Debate

Well-known evangelical pastor Rick Warren and atheist Sam Harris recently met at Warren’s Saddleback Church in California for a four-hour discussion of the question, Is God real?

WARREN: Sam, do you believe human beings have a spirit?

HARRIS: There are many reasons not to believe in a naive conception of a soul that kind of floats off the brain at death and goes somewhere else. But I do not know.

WARREN: Can you have spirituality without a spirit?

HARRIS: You can feel yourself to be one with the universe.

WARREN: OK, then why can’t you just take the next step? Because right now you’re talking in extremely nonrational terms.

HARRIS: There’s nothing irrational about it. You can close your eyes in meditation and lose the sense of your physical body, totally. Many people draw from that the metaphysical conclusion that “I’m just spirit, and I can transcend the body.” That’s not the only conclusion you have to draw from that experience, and I don’t think it’s the best conclusion.

WARREN: You’re more spiritual than you think. You just don’t want a boss. You don’t want a God who tells you what to do.

HARRIS: I don’t want to pretend to be certain about anything I’m not certain about.

Rick, last thoughts?

WARREN: I believe in both faith and reason. The more we learn about God, the more we understand how magnificent this universe is. There is no contradiction to it. When I look at history, I would disagree with Sam: Christianity has done far more good than bad. Altruism comes out of knowing there is more than this life, that there is a sovereign God, that I am not God. We’re both betting. He’s betting his life that he’s right. I’m betting my life that Jesus was not a liar. When we die, if he’s right, I’ve lost nothing. If I’m right, he’s lost everything. I’m not willing to make that gamble.

Read selections from the discussion at Newsweek. See also the related article: Is God Real?

HT: Justin Taylor

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